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	<title>Comments on: scandalous</title>
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	<link>http://flowerdust.net/2009/01/29/scandalous/</link>
	<description>Author, Blogger, Speaker, Bad Driver</description>
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		<title>By: Rick Frueh</title>
		<link>http://flowerdust.net/2009/01/29/scandalous/#comment-223032</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick Frueh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Feb 2009 00:34:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.flowerdust.net/?p=1999#comment-223032</guid>
		<description>&quot;What’s the motive?&quot;

Only God knows that. What&#039;s the motive for people to watch him? Only God knows that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;What’s the motive?&#8221;</p>
<p>Only God knows that. What&#8217;s the motive for people to watch him? Only God knows that.</p>
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		<title>By: Will_nottheactor</title>
		<link>http://flowerdust.net/2009/01/29/scandalous/#comment-223010</link>
		<dc:creator>Will_nottheactor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2009 21:43:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.flowerdust.net/?p=1999#comment-223010</guid>
		<description>This is a good discussion, no doubt.  

Tal, my point in #46 was that he did seek and get help (countering your point in #52, &quot;...but Anne’s point was that when he reached out for help before it all got going, no one was willing to offer any.&quot;)    He was counseled for several years, by four church pastors, and in 2007, he issues a big press release in 2007 that he was totally heterosexual.  The link to that 2007 USAToday news story is in my response above.  Further Googling revealed that in early 2008, he ended his relationship with the New Life Restoration team, chosing to continue accountability with Pastor Tommy Barnett at Phoenix First Assembly.  Clearly, he had and hopefully is still getting help.

As to the transparency, judgement, forgiveness, grace, love issues - we as believers have been instructed to forgive 70x7, we&#039;ve been instructed to judge not, lest we be judged, we&#039;ve been instructed to love our neighbors as ourselves, we&#039;ve been instructed be careful of false teachers and prophets, and a litany of other commands.   Ted&#039;s forgiveness is between him and God, right?  Our job is to love Ted, a sinner, as we would love ourselves.

So why has he been on all the major news programs and talk shows in such a rapid-fire manner?  What&#039;s the motive?  Attention for his HBO documentary airing now?  Or is it  real repentance and healing?

We as believers need to ask and seek an answer to THESE questions, not to judge him, but to evaluate his words and message per the Biblical instruction to be on alert for those attempting to decieve.  He still can be used by God, no doubt, just as any of us, sinners, can be used by God.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a good discussion, no doubt.  </p>
<p>Tal, my point in #46 was that he did seek and get help (countering your point in #52, &#8220;&#8230;but Anne’s point was that when he reached out for help before it all got going, no one was willing to offer any.&#8221;)    He was counseled for several years, by four church pastors, and in 2007, he issues a big press release in 2007 that he was totally heterosexual.  The link to that 2007 USAToday news story is in my response above.  Further Googling revealed that in early 2008, he ended his relationship with the New Life Restoration team, chosing to continue accountability with Pastor Tommy Barnett at Phoenix First Assembly.  Clearly, he had and hopefully is still getting help.</p>
<p>As to the transparency, judgement, forgiveness, grace, love issues &#8211; we as believers have been instructed to forgive 70&#215;7, we&#8217;ve been instructed to judge not, lest we be judged, we&#8217;ve been instructed to love our neighbors as ourselves, we&#8217;ve been instructed be careful of false teachers and prophets, and a litany of other commands.   Ted&#8217;s forgiveness is between him and God, right?  Our job is to love Ted, a sinner, as we would love ourselves.</p>
<p>So why has he been on all the major news programs and talk shows in such a rapid-fire manner?  What&#8217;s the motive?  Attention for his HBO documentary airing now?  Or is it  real repentance and healing?</p>
<p>We as believers need to ask and seek an answer to THESE questions, not to judge him, but to evaluate his words and message per the Biblical instruction to be on alert for those attempting to decieve.  He still can be used by God, no doubt, just as any of us, sinners, can be used by God.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Rick Frueh</title>
		<link>http://flowerdust.net/2009/01/29/scandalous/#comment-222974</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick Frueh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2009 17:35:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.flowerdust.net/?p=1999#comment-222974</guid>
		<description>It is easy to see right and wrong and to act accordingly based solely on that perspective. Do right = reward, do wrong = punishment. Even the unregenerate can understand that judicial construct.

But what happens when you add mercy? Or grace? Or love? The equation becomes a little more difficult to discern, because let us face it, God&#039;s grace is wrong, profoundly wrong, judicially wrong, in fact eternally wrong. And we never seem to have a problem receiving it, just extending it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is easy to see right and wrong and to act accordingly based solely on that perspective. Do right = reward, do wrong = punishment. Even the unregenerate can understand that judicial construct.</p>
<p>But what happens when you add mercy? Or grace? Or love? The equation becomes a little more difficult to discern, because let us face it, God&#8217;s grace is wrong, profoundly wrong, judicially wrong, in fact eternally wrong. And we never seem to have a problem receiving it, just extending it.</p>
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		<title>By: Tal Prince</title>
		<link>http://flowerdust.net/2009/01/29/scandalous/#comment-222922</link>
		<dc:creator>Tal Prince</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2009 05:51:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.flowerdust.net/?p=1999#comment-222922</guid>
		<description>Jud, 

Everything is broken. We are all broken - absolutely right. That started in Genesis 3 and things essentially have not changed all that much. There have been mega churches long before today, and they are not going anywhere. I don&#039;t think they are the problem in and of themselves.

It comes back to the fact that we are all broken so we have to figure out ways to do the Gospel together in community. How do we allow each other to be broken. How do we help each other heal? How do we help each other along in the sanctification process?

How do we handle a pastor, who is struggling with temptation, and asks for help? What do we do when their imperfection comes to the surface?  When broken people hurt each other, how do we live in community together when other disappoint us and when we disappoint them?

How do we wield grace instead of judgment when other let us down? How do we go about restoring them? God&#039;s aim is always restoration and redemption - how do we make those ours, too?

If we could give each other the gift of transparency without judgment, the world could truly be impacted by the power of the Gospel. We could also avoid so much of our sin knowing that we could safely talk to brothers and sisters about it, and they could come alongside us and help us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jud, </p>
<p>Everything is broken. We are all broken &#8211; absolutely right. That started in Genesis 3 and things essentially have not changed all that much. There have been mega churches long before today, and they are not going anywhere. I don&#8217;t think they are the problem in and of themselves.</p>
<p>It comes back to the fact that we are all broken so we have to figure out ways to do the Gospel together in community. How do we allow each other to be broken. How do we help each other heal? How do we help each other along in the sanctification process?</p>
<p>How do we handle a pastor, who is struggling with temptation, and asks for help? What do we do when their imperfection comes to the surface?  When broken people hurt each other, how do we live in community together when other disappoint us and when we disappoint them?</p>
<p>How do we wield grace instead of judgment when other let us down? How do we go about restoring them? God&#8217;s aim is always restoration and redemption &#8211; how do we make those ours, too?</p>
<p>If we could give each other the gift of transparency without judgment, the world could truly be impacted by the power of the Gospel. We could also avoid so much of our sin knowing that we could safely talk to brothers and sisters about it, and they could come alongside us and help us.</p>
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		<title>By: Anne Jackson</title>
		<link>http://flowerdust.net/2009/01/29/scandalous/#comment-222920</link>
		<dc:creator>Anne Jackson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2009 05:40:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.flowerdust.net/?p=1999#comment-222920</guid>
		<description>DCM-I tried to email you but it came back undeliv.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DCM-I tried to email you but it came back undeliv.</p>
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