Comments on: there are a lot of lazy church staff people http://flowerdust.net/2008/11/03/there-are-a-lot-of-lazy-church-staff-people-and-frankly-im-kind-of-tired-of-it/ Author, Blogger, Speaker, Bad Driver Mon, 15 Mar 2010 13:22:46 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Scott http://flowerdust.net/2008/11/03/there-are-a-lot-of-lazy-church-staff-people-and-frankly-im-kind-of-tired-of-it/#comment-219102 Scott Tue, 16 Dec 2008 15:14:14 +0000 http://www.flowerdust.net/?p=1373#comment-219102 Ok, I'm late to the party - but I have some thoughts anyway. It seems as though most agree that lazy staff persons are in the minority. No way - I think Anne is right, they are the rule - but I'm not sure it's completely laziness. I think some is self-motivation. I used to work with some guys that were perpetually around the water cooler, but once defined expectations and goals were given, they were very hard workers. Management/leadership principles are the same for secular/religious organizations - granted, the applications are different. I don't why it has become so unacceptable for the church to daily operate like other organizations. Ok, I’m late to the party – but I have some thoughts anyway.
It seems as though most agree that lazy staff persons are in the minority. No way – I think Anne is right, they are the rule – but I’m not sure it’s completely laziness.

I think some is self-motivation. I used to work with some guys that were perpetually around the water cooler, but once defined expectations and goals were given, they were very hard workers.

Management/leadership principles are the same for secular/religious organizations – granted, the applications are different. I don’t why it has become so unacceptable for the church to daily operate like other organizations.

]]> By: Tom http://flowerdust.net/2008/11/03/there-are-a-lot-of-lazy-church-staff-people-and-frankly-im-kind-of-tired-of-it/#comment-214243 Tom Mon, 17 Nov 2008 05:18:32 +0000 http://www.flowerdust.net/?p=1373#comment-214243 It seems like in many churches there is one extreme or the other. This is not always the case but quite often it's in smaller churches (200-150-50 people or less), where you see the pastor overworked and doing everything and he is run by a board of elders or something to that affect. The other extreme is the large, mega church, for lack of a better name, where the pastor is surrounded by a staff of yes men/women, who do all the work. Someone does the music, works with the youth, and there's a whole staff of people for each age group in the youth from college down to the nursery, there's a financial/accounting guy, the visiting pastor, outreach pastor, missions pastor, media pastor, tech pastor and so on. I'm surprised some churches don't have a donut/coffee pastor. But the point is this enables the pastor to sit around and do less than desired. Let me throw in one rant/rave here if you please. When I was worship/arts pastor a couple years ago at a church of about a thousand in southern New Jersey, each of us were responsible for the shepherding of our own staff and volunteers. So basically the associate pastors and the Deacons were responsible for the spiritual needs of the congregation. In my department I had about a hundred+ people which included P/W, tech, sound/video, drama, stage crew, artists, etc. So I would think that at least our lead pastor could take on the spiritual guidance and shepherding of his staff of 6 full-time and 2 volunteer pastors. He never did. We had prayer as a team once a week at our staff meeting and that was it. There was never any time where he would sit with us individually and ask how our devotional life was or if we were taking care of our spouse and kids or anything like that unless he did it with the others and not me for some reason. I hope he at least prayed for us on occasion. We never even recieved any help with the shepherding of our own staffs. Other than books and worship/arts conferences at Willow and C3 at Fellowship, there's was no help, no encouragement, no "you're doing a nice job." Just "we need to get better." It seems like in many churches there is one extreme or the other. This is not always the case but quite often it’s in smaller churches (200-150-50 people or less), where you see the pastor overworked and doing everything and he is run by a board of elders or something to that affect. The other extreme is the large, mega church, for lack of a better name, where the pastor is surrounded by a staff of yes men/women, who do all the work. Someone does the music, works with the youth, and there’s a whole staff of people for each age group in the youth from college down to the nursery, there’s a financial/accounting guy, the visiting pastor, outreach pastor, missions pastor, media pastor, tech pastor and so on. I’m surprised some churches don’t have a donut/coffee pastor. But the point is this enables the pastor to sit around and do less than desired.

Let me throw in one rant/rave here if you please. When I was worship/arts pastor a couple years ago at a church of about a thousand in southern New Jersey, each of us were responsible for the shepherding of our own staff and volunteers. So basically the associate pastors and the Deacons were responsible for the spiritual needs of the congregation. In my department I had about a hundred+ people which included P/W, tech, sound/video, drama, stage crew, artists, etc. So I would think that at least our lead pastor could take on the spiritual guidance and shepherding of his staff of 6 full-time and 2 volunteer pastors. He never did. We had prayer as a team once a week at our staff meeting and that was it. There was never any time where he would sit with us individually and ask how our devotional life was or if we were taking care of our spouse and kids or anything like that unless he did it with the others and not me for some reason. I hope he at least prayed for us on occasion. We never even recieved any help with the shepherding of our own staffs. Other than books and worship/arts conferences at Willow and C3 at Fellowship, there’s was no help, no encouragement, no “you’re doing a nice job.” Just “we need to get better.”

]]> By: Anne Jackson http://flowerdust.net/2008/11/03/there-are-a-lot-of-lazy-church-staff-people-and-frankly-im-kind-of-tired-of-it/#comment-214185 Anne Jackson Sun, 16 Nov 2008 12:01:40 +0000 http://www.flowerdust.net/?p=1373#comment-214185 There should be some structure of accountability. Pastors who are on smaller teams should report to the Elders. And in some situations, you can know someone isn't working simply because their job isn't getting done. "Why isn't that video finished?" or "How come this project is late?" or "What ever happened to this event that was supposed to happen?" There should be some structure of accountability. Pastors who are on smaller teams should report to the Elders. And in some situations, you can know someone isn’t working simply because their job isn’t getting done. “Why isn’t that video finished?” or “How come this project is late?” or “What ever happened to this event that was supposed to happen?”

]]> By: Tom http://flowerdust.net/2008/11/03/there-are-a-lot-of-lazy-church-staff-people-and-frankly-im-kind-of-tired-of-it/#comment-214167 Tom Sun, 16 Nov 2008 04:31:50 +0000 http://www.flowerdust.net/?p=1373#comment-214167 We don't need to dance around it, there are lazy staff members out there. It's a reality, ok. No one is saying your husband is one of them. I am not at your church to see if your husband is lazy or not, I'll take your word for it. So take my word for it that my pastor was lazy. Tom PS I don't know, maybe he could be accountable to two or three executive staff members that are not brainwashed yes men. I agree he does not need 120 bosses. That's wrong. We don’t need to dance around it, there are lazy staff members out there. It’s a reality, ok. No one is saying your husband is one of them. I am not at your church to see if your husband is lazy or not, I’ll take your word for it. So take my word for it that my pastor was lazy.

Tom PS I don’t know, maybe he could be accountable to two or three executive staff members that are not brainwashed yes men. I agree he does not need 120 bosses. That’s wrong.

]]> By: Jill http://flowerdust.net/2008/11/03/there-are-a-lot-of-lazy-church-staff-people-and-frankly-im-kind-of-tired-of-it/#comment-214166 Jill Sun, 16 Nov 2008 04:06:13 +0000 http://www.flowerdust.net/?p=1373#comment-214166 Anne, I read through your comments, and Michelle and Mike both express more my point of view. My husband was the solo pastor of smaller churches for 17 years. I've worked with a couple of parachurch organizations myself, and I have seen very few lazy people, those who were were fired in short order. I'm curious of 2 things, one is who are pastor's to be accountable to? People keep mentioning accountability. At our last church my husband had what felt like 120 bosses. It gets pretty dysfunctional when you're treated like the only employee to 120 bosses. And secondly, how on earth does anyone know if anyone else is working or not, unless you yourself aren't working? Seems like those who have time to observe others so much are they themselves not working. Get back to work yourself, quit judging others. Anne,
I read through your comments, and Michelle and Mike both express more my point of view. My husband was the solo pastor of smaller churches for 17 years. I’ve worked with a couple of parachurch organizations myself, and I have seen very few lazy people, those who were were fired in short order.

I’m curious of 2 things, one is who are pastor’s to be accountable to? People keep mentioning accountability. At our last church my husband had what felt like 120 bosses. It gets pretty dysfunctional when you’re treated like the only employee to 120 bosses.

And secondly, how on earth does anyone know if anyone else is working or not, unless you yourself aren’t working? Seems like those who have time to observe others so much are they themselves not working. Get back to work yourself, quit judging others.

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