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	<title>Comments on: THE COMPETITION-DRIVEN CHURCH</title>
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	<link>http://flowerdust.net/2008/07/07/the-competition-driven-church/</link>
	<description>Author, Blogger, Speaker, Bad Driver</description>
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		<title>By: bill wong</title>
		<link>http://flowerdust.net/2008/07/07/the-competition-driven-church/#comment-197326</link>
		<dc:creator>bill wong</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 03:04:46 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Sorry for the late comment... but here&#039;s my take.

I am a young adult and pretty much considered myself as a numbers person (since my undergrad degree is statistics).  So, I am not as annoyed with the numbers as some people.

With that said, I also bring another perspective to the table... which is a first generation Chinese American in a non-Asian Episcopal Church who is active in Asian ministry, which is atypical of the Asians who are in Asian ministries.

Anyways... because I am a racial minority, I wouldn&#039;t be able to be myself if I don&#039;t make myself be heard in the church.  After all, typical Asian American Episcopalians in my situation would just settle in but compromised themselves in the process, which is what I heard from a rector I respected.  But, because I still wanted to get involved in Asian ministry despite my situation, the best way (based on her words and my intuitions) was to introduce the Chinese side of me in a non-invasive manner.

Meanwhile... my take on numbers... I think churches should be honest with their numbers, especially in terms of attendance.  However, mentioning them too much would definitely cause the perception of being hard-sell or over-competitive.  Personally, I think if the church is solid in all phases of ministry, there&#039;s no need for numbers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry for the late comment&#8230; but here&#8217;s my take.</p>
<p>I am a young adult and pretty much considered myself as a numbers person (since my undergrad degree is statistics).  So, I am not as annoyed with the numbers as some people.</p>
<p>With that said, I also bring another perspective to the table&#8230; which is a first generation Chinese American in a non-Asian Episcopal Church who is active in Asian ministry, which is atypical of the Asians who are in Asian ministries.</p>
<p>Anyways&#8230; because I am a racial minority, I wouldn&#8217;t be able to be myself if I don&#8217;t make myself be heard in the church.  After all, typical Asian American Episcopalians in my situation would just settle in but compromised themselves in the process, which is what I heard from a rector I respected.  But, because I still wanted to get involved in Asian ministry despite my situation, the best way (based on her words and my intuitions) was to introduce the Chinese side of me in a non-invasive manner.</p>
<p>Meanwhile&#8230; my take on numbers&#8230; I think churches should be honest with their numbers, especially in terms of attendance.  However, mentioning them too much would definitely cause the perception of being hard-sell or over-competitive.  Personally, I think if the church is solid in all phases of ministry, there&#8217;s no need for numbers.</p>
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		<title>By: patrowland</title>
		<link>http://flowerdust.net/2008/07/07/the-competition-driven-church/#comment-189803</link>
		<dc:creator>patrowland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jul 2008 15:06:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.flowerdust.net/?p=839#comment-189803</guid>
		<description>I am a little slow on this comment since I&#039;m behind on blogs.  I along with many others in ministry can identify with this.  A couple years ago I wrote a journal entry (which I don&#039;t do often) about the desire to be unknown and the ego to be very known.  Great stuff, can&#039;t wait  to read the book.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am a little slow on this comment since I&#8217;m behind on blogs.  I along with many others in ministry can identify with this.  A couple years ago I wrote a journal entry (which I don&#8217;t do often) about the desire to be unknown and the ego to be very known.  Great stuff, can&#8217;t wait  to read the book.</p>
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		<title>By: Allen Rodi</title>
		<link>http://flowerdust.net/2008/07/07/the-competition-driven-church/#comment-189553</link>
		<dc:creator>Allen Rodi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jul 2008 22:01:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.flowerdust.net/?p=839#comment-189553</guid>
		<description>Good topic!  Itâ€™s my belief that this ego-driven nature is baked into our individualistic culture.  Just last week while walking down the can goods aisle at my local grocery store, I noticed individual sized cans lima beans, just a little smaller than the standard size.  You can now go in and out of a grocery or hardware store and not speak to a single person.  The faithful Christians that I know will barely acknowledge that the person that lives next door to them is there neighbor.  Far be it that Jesus said weâ€™re supposed to love that person.  We donâ€™t even know them.  The Dixie Chicks were right when they wrote the song â€œThe Neighborâ€ and sung about us hiding inside.

We seek to be different, better, more so that we can get noticed, but Christ wants us to behave as one.  Itâ€™s a together thing!  The Message says it well in Eph 4 â€œpouring yourselves out for each other in acts of love, alert at noticing differences and quick at mending fences. You were all called to travel on the same road and in the same direction, so stay together, both outwardly and inwardlyâ€

I caught myself under real conviction a few months ago.  We had a service to honor the ladies in our fellowship.  Being the single guy in my thirties, I found myself wanting to be noticed, so what do I do.  Instead of the black pants, I go for the TUX pants and the extra nice black tie.  I felt so out of place, everyone looked the same.  That night God laid a heavy word on me, â€œJust serve like I made you Allen and watch what happens when my church works like I intended.â€

Should we be asking, â€œHow can we be working as one?â€</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good topic!  Itâ€™s my belief that this ego-driven nature is baked into our individualistic culture.  Just last week while walking down the can goods aisle at my local grocery store, I noticed individual sized cans lima beans, just a little smaller than the standard size.  You can now go in and out of a grocery or hardware store and not speak to a single person.  The faithful Christians that I know will barely acknowledge that the person that lives next door to them is there neighbor.  Far be it that Jesus said weâ€™re supposed to love that person.  We donâ€™t even know them.  The Dixie Chicks were right when they wrote the song â€œThe Neighborâ€ and sung about us hiding inside.</p>
<p>We seek to be different, better, more so that we can get noticed, but Christ wants us to behave as one.  Itâ€™s a together thing!  The Message says it well in Eph 4 â€œpouring yourselves out for each other in acts of love, alert at noticing differences and quick at mending fences. You were all called to travel on the same road and in the same direction, so stay together, both outwardly and inwardlyâ€</p>
<p>I caught myself under real conviction a few months ago.  We had a service to honor the ladies in our fellowship.  Being the single guy in my thirties, I found myself wanting to be noticed, so what do I do.  Instead of the black pants, I go for the TUX pants and the extra nice black tie.  I felt so out of place, everyone looked the same.  That night God laid a heavy word on me, â€œJust serve like I made you Allen and watch what happens when my church works like I intended.â€</p>
<p>Should we be asking, â€œHow can we be working as one?â€</p>
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		<title>By: Marshall</title>
		<link>http://flowerdust.net/2008/07/07/the-competition-driven-church/#comment-189487</link>
		<dc:creator>Marshall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jul 2008 15:32:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.flowerdust.net/?p=839#comment-189487</guid>
		<description>I have been a full time Worship Pastor for almost twenty years and can remember how i used to worry about the size of my choir, how many were in worship attendance, etc..  It took a while but God revealed to me that my job is to lead passionate worship for Him, Share my faith with others and live a life that mentors (disciples) those in my sphere of influence.

It gives me great joy to receive calls and e-mails from all around the country each of which is a former (disciple) each of which serve a churches of all sizes.

We as church leaders have bought into immediate gratification and numbers are sure signs we are reaching the world (woo hoo). I am convinced that true life change and commitment to Christ comes one on one.  It is slow and not so gratifying at times but in time God&#039;s Church is Mega.  And we have been a tiny link in the chain.

Be Blessed</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have been a full time Worship Pastor for almost twenty years and can remember how i used to worry about the size of my choir, how many were in worship attendance, etc..  It took a while but God revealed to me that my job is to lead passionate worship for Him, Share my faith with others and live a life that mentors (disciples) those in my sphere of influence.</p>
<p>It gives me great joy to receive calls and e-mails from all around the country each of which is a former (disciple) each of which serve a churches of all sizes.</p>
<p>We as church leaders have bought into immediate gratification and numbers are sure signs we are reaching the world (woo hoo). I am convinced that true life change and commitment to Christ comes one on one.  It is slow and not so gratifying at times but in time God&#8217;s Church is Mega.  And we have been a tiny link in the chain.</p>
<p>Be Blessed</p>
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		<title>By: Jan Owen</title>
		<link>http://flowerdust.net/2008/07/07/the-competition-driven-church/#comment-189408</link>
		<dc:creator>Jan Owen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jul 2008 01:38:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.flowerdust.net/?p=839#comment-189408</guid>
		<description>Candyce has voiced many of the questions that have crowded my mind and heart through the years. I think - for me - it wasn&#039;t that I so much wanted to be bigger or better than anyone else but that the bigger and better made me feel smaller and smaller.....and inept as a result. 

@Candyce - I&#039;ve planted two churches and am a worship leader. Let me know if you ever just want to chat! I love talking to other worship leaders.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Candyce has voiced many of the questions that have crowded my mind and heart through the years. I think &#8211; for me &#8211; it wasn&#8217;t that I so much wanted to be bigger or better than anyone else but that the bigger and better made me feel smaller and smaller&#8230;..and inept as a result. </p>
<p>@Candyce &#8211; I&#8217;ve planted two churches and am a worship leader. Let me know if you ever just want to chat! I love talking to other worship leaders.</p>
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