if jesus tried to get a job in the american church today, he’d have a heckuva time unless he graduated magna cum laude from some institute of higher education and paid his dues to the local seminary. and some of the disciples? completely uneducated and unpolished. good luck there.
chris and i had coffee at texas roast on wednesday evening with a new friend we’ve met. he’s going to be planting a church down in austin in the next few years. anyway, we were talking about church health and two factors to a healthy church: obedience/listening to the direction of the spirit and cultural relevance (not exclusive from each other). but with all of our combined church experience it was really easy to see the churches who are having the most health issues (leadership/staff issues, money problems, not fulfilling the great commission) were the churches who had flip-flopped those priorities…trying to be cutting edge and relevant FIRST while, although a close second, submission to our biblical callings was placed after that.
maybe it is a process all churches must learn and grow through. maybe not. i would love to sit and talk for hours with pastors of churches all over on why they spend more money on paint than missions or why their job descriptions sound more like managers of a GAP while they leave out things like passion, calling, holiness, accountability and replace them with networking, stamina to work long hours, and degrees. then they wonder why budgets fall short, ministries grow numerically but not spiritually, and burn out is at an all time high. when church staff turnover is the same rate as retail turnover, something must be amiss.
You’re definitely on to something here–great questions. I can’t begin to tell you the pain being a part of this system has caused in my life.
I think the necessity of finances in the way we do “church” is a big part of the problem. Though I have to admit as a pastor I’ve more often than not felt like part of the problem rather than part of the solution.
Man, if Jesus were here today, I think he’d be talking to a lot of major seminary trained pastors the same as he did the pharisees.
hey hey hey! I havent heard from you guys in forever! thats too long!
seems like you and chris are having a swell time in texas, and doing some sweet things.. like FREAKING MEET WILL FREAKING SMITH! holy smokes, i’d be lieing if i said i wasn’t jealous.
anyway, come back for thanksgiving or something. it’d be nice to see you guys, i just love hearing from you. have a good one!!
take care,
steph
I am not even sure if Jesus would be accepted in some churches.
Ditto! I attended a church in Elon College NC today that was celebrating 6 yrs. of existence. This church does have a purpose-driven flavor but has a very biblically conservative approach to evangelism, missions and ministry. They actually preach that sin leads to death and repentance is needed for fellowship with Christ. The spirit in that church was electrifying, in fact 7 people raised hands with eyes open and people looking at them as they surrendered to Jesus. I would say the attendance is in the low 200′s right now. The pastoral leadership is the special ingredient. This pastor truly loves people more than himself. In fact, the senior pastor is just a commom mountain boy from SW Virginia (his own words). He coahes football at the high school next door to his church rather than spend time on the golf course with area pastors. He disciples football players on Tuesday evenings, etc. The point is that he is visible in the lives of people. Ever tried to make an appointment with a pastor? Until we stop doing church and start loving people our churches will fail. I have a pastor friend in California whose church averages about 8000 per week. He made a comment that he believes he is the reason many young men go to seminary to become pastors but fail in ministry. He says that they take one look at him and say to themselves if that guy can do it then I know I can do it. He takes the simple approach to ministry and others around him think it’s easy. No one will be successful in ministry unless they are called to that ministry by our heavenly Father. Now, when is the last time you heard that in a church plant or missions seminar? The most healthy churches have a regular diet of preaching Jesus and loving people…and that doesn’t even include a glossy brochure.(not that I’m against them)
Well said.
Um, I think that – that is why we are to be the church. I am so confused by all the politics. But I love the little pockets of community here and there. The building and people we “worship” with now are so amazing and “Acts 2″ that you can’t help but feel that it is right on track with what God had in mind. It is sad though that I feel it is out of the ordinary, and not normal in todays society. We should all feel that way about all the “churches” we attend.
mmmm …. interesting conversation for someone trying to get a church plant off the ground. Here is my tuppence worth, or nickel’s worth, for those on the far side of the pond.
We should start with God, God as Trinity, in the light of what we understand about God’s character, priorities and mission (as revealed in Scripture) we should work out what we are to be and do as His people. The problem all too often is we start at the opposite end, with the church, then what happens is that tradition shapes how we understand the church, tradition and other powerful internal forces in the church decide what the church is to be and do and the result is that both those inside and outside the church get a distorted view of God. If you want the academic formula for what I am talking about, so you can impress your friends, its
THEOLOGY shapes MISSIOLOGY shapes ECCLESIOLOGY.
Seminary is not essential but it sure does mean you can use big words!!!!
good stuff. i am so excited to see you soon. i have so much to talk to you about, things i want to ask you, tattoo thoughts, you know, the usual. i miss you like crazy.
love you
trace
Yeah, one of the things that really annoys me about speakers was the long list of credentials that are often given. If you don’t go to seminary, then you obviously arent’ equipped.
tomorrow, tomorrow, we’re lunchin’ tomorrow … it’s only a …. DAY ….. A – ……. WAAAAAAY! (hope you know the tune)
looking forward to it — see you at 11:30!
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Just become a member in few minutes. Wanna send you guys a warm hello!
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